During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.
Thomas Hobbes
What does it mean?
How does it relate to chapter 6?
What concrete example of this concept can you find in the chapter?
What does it mean?
How does it relate to chapter 6?
What concrete example of this concept can you find in the chapter?
The quote signifies that without any form of authority, mankind will will be at war with itself. An authority acts as a gel that keeps everything and everyone together, a voice of reason and power that can be trusted will put everyone's mind at ease; through the benefits it brings.
RépondreEffacerIn Chapter 6 many boys wanted to stay where they were, near the rocks. They had specified that it would make for a good base/shelter. Ralph had used his authority figure to transmit sense to the boys by saying that there could be a ship out in the sea, and if the fire isn't lit, there would be no chance of rescue. If Ralph had let the boys do what they wanted, it would have been more cause for trouble and it would have eliminated the chance of rescue and not have made it a possibility.
“This would make a wizard fort.”
“We can roll rocks—”
“Right onto the bridge—”
“I say we’ll go on!” shouted Ralph furiously. “We’ve got to make certain.
We’ll go now.” This shows that Ralph stepped up as a leader and isn't afraid to use his authority figure for the better of the group.
(Cannot get page reference since I forgot my book @ school.)
That is very well thought out michel, although it is not necessarily a voice of reason. I think the authority acts as a similarity between everyone. I do agree with that quote though ;P nic profile pic. LULZ
EffacerI did not see it that way. The leader being seen as the common power is a very interesting way of seeing things.
EffacerI see what you are saying Jacob about the fact that authority doesn't always act as a voice of reason, but simply, like Michel said, a power to give orders (whether good or bad).
EffacerI agree with jacob, Ralph tries to keep control by forcing everyone back to the fire but Jack is starting to gain followers. Its almost as if the savagery and lack of community is really starting to affect the group.
EffacerI agree with Nicolas. It's almost scary that when fear hits, it is savagery that thrives instead of order/civilization. And, I guess this comes back to Michel's explanation that Ralph is forced to use his authority to get the boys to be productive.
EffacerI agree with Nicolas. The boys seem to be slowly changing side because of the lack of rules. However, if everyone starts thinking the same way, there could be problems because nobody will be able to reason with them.
EffacerI agree with Madison and Nicolas because it is true since Ralph is being responsible and wants to make sure that everything is under control in order to get rescued but the boys he is now getting controlling where as Jack is trying to gain power so some guys tend to now follow Jack
EffacerNic has brought up an interesting idea. Jack is starting to gain some followers and the savagery is taking affect.
EffacerYou explained the quote very clrealy, Micheal well done.
Very true, we can relate this to real life as well in the sense of how every country has a leader (whether it's a prime minister, president or dictator) and how anarchy ensues when a leader is overthrown or is absent.
EffacerMichel, I really liked your analysis of the quote (mankind being at war with itself). I couldnt agree more.
EffacerVery true Nicolas, I think separation and the boysn differences is becoming much more evident now and their might be a future incident regarding the "two groups".
This quote means that without a common motivation, or superior force, men will always live in discord and fight amongst each other. When men can united against a single power they are less likely to turn against each other because they are busy rallying against an exterior force. Furthermore, men fighting for the same cause can relate to each other because they generally carry the same beliefs and experience the same emotions. For instance, in chapter 6 of Lord of the Flies, the boys join forces to fight the beast. They are united in fear of this creature and in their ambition to destroy it. This union thus reduces the tension between Jack and Ralph, because they are both leading in the same direction for once.
RépondreEffacer"The bright morning was full of threat and the circle began to change. It faced out, rather than in, and the spears of sharpened wood were like a fence." (p. 109) This quote demonstrates how the boys stood united to face the dangerous world outside of their circle.
"Couldn't let you do it on you own." (p. 115) and "(...) Jack led the way down the rock and across the bridge." (p. 118) These quotes show Jack and Ralph working together to succeed.
Nevertheless, this common belief, cannot solve all conflicts because not everyone will feel as strongly about it. Each person will react differently to an issue, which may in fact cause even more conflict. For example, in LOTF, although Ralph and Jack seem to agree with each other more; they have trouble making the other boys as involved in this problem as they are. After the hike to the stone ridge, most kids are tired and ready to or play head to the shelters, and things are never as scary in daylight. The kids o not take the issue as seriously.
Even though most acknowledge the dangers associated with the Beast, not everyone agrees on which course of action should be taken either. Piggy worries more about the survival of the littluns, Ralph still worries about the fire, and actually, Simon, hardly believes in the beast at all. So I wonder whether or not it is really possible for everyone to unite against a common power or if the different opinions regarding such an important issue will only cause more problems.
I completely agree with you, the little community does start to work together because they all have that one thing in common, and that's the fear of the beast.
EffacerVery well said. I think a common power would only create more tension and problems between the group since everyone has different opinions, beliefs and different ways to deal with a certain situation. A situation like the beast could lead to chaos.
EffacerI like the example you gave about how the tension between Jack and Ralph somewhat dissipated during this chapter. It has a direct and clear link with the quote and your analysis. Well done.
Effaceri like when you ask yourself if it is really possible for them to truely unite as one group because of all of the different opinions. I guess some dramatic event will need to happen before there ideals change.
EffacerCouldn't have said it better myself. For now, the boys are uniting against a common enemy, but when they realize that the "beast" is only a (dead?) parachutist, it will definitely be chaos, aka savagery.
EffacerThe boys only have one thing in common right now and it is the fear of the Beast. Without this one thing, the boys argue and things become chaos. I believe that something dramatic, like Nicolas said, will happen before the boys wake up and realize that they need to work together and not against each other.
Effaceri agree with Elisabeth and with what Nicolas said because it is true that the only thing that they finally agree on is that they fear the beast and they wanna get rid of it, although they don't agree on anything else i believe that what Nicolas said about a big event having to happen for things to change is true.
EffacerI liked what was said about the boys to "unite. Similar to what Nic said. I think it will take something serious to change how the boys are acting at this point.
EffacerCompletely agree with you, I like the way you mentioned the boys's different opinions and reactions to the beast, I find each really relates to their personalities.
EffacerLike all, I agree with Elisabeth, and you're absolutely right about the boys unity and their differences regarding the situation (also the change in behavior you get from Jack and Ralph).
RépondreEffacer