The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Franklin D. Roosevelt What does it mean? How does it relate to chapter 5? What concrete example of this concept can you find in the chapter?
Psychologically, humans make themselves afraid out of being afraid. This said, take the example of a nightmare. In some way, you know whats going to happen to you next in your nightmare but you deny the fact that something bad will happen to you. Humans get frightened because they don't wanna get frightened...In chapter 5 of Lord of the flies, fear is shown as the main subject, The boys are stressing themselves out in fear in order to not be afraid of what scares them, the beast. as an example when Jack says: “The thing is—fear can’t hurt you any more than a dream. There aren’t any beasts to be afraid of on this island.” He looked along the row of whispering littluns. “Serve you right if something did get you, you useless lot of cry-babies! But there is no animal—”
afterwards, Piggy went against Jacks statement saying,
“I don’t agree with all Jack said, but with some. ’Course there isn't a beast in the forest. How could there be? What would a beast eat?” “Pig.” “We eat pig.”
this foreshadows and hints the boys stranded on the island have become the beast them selves.
That is interesting, I didn't see it that way. I think the boys could be the Beast in themselves because they have never been in a situation like they are in now. The boys only have one thing in mind and it is to survive. They have different ways of thinking so they do not get along. The boys are afraid of a Beast that nobody has really seen. I think they are more afraid or the idea of the Beast without having any proof of it. The boys are also afraid of not being rescued but they all try to pretend they aren't afraid. I believe that since being a boy/man involves being strong, the boys might be scared of being scared or maybe even scared of accepting somebody else's ideas
I hadn't thought of the boys becoming the beast themselves. I like it because it shows how they each have the beast, a symbol of savagery and fear, inside of them.
I agree with Madison , and that they are more afraid of the idea of the Beast without having any proof of it, just the idea that their might be something in the island makes them afraid.
Interesting. I thought this quote was describing how fear weakens a person mentally and can make a person susceptible. The boys are afraid of a certain beast on the island, but the fact that they are feeling fear is restraining them from getting things done on island (ex. going in the forest). This, ultimately, could lead to their deaths, which is why they must fear, fear.
I agree with Alex, the fear of fearing something on the Island is keeping them from getting things done. As talking about something we fear relieves stress about that something, they boys do it amongst themselves. Though what they don't realise is, that it's keeping them from moving towards the ultimate goal of rescue.
The boys becoming the beats is an interesting idea. I also liked what Alex had said about fear restraining the boys from accomplishing anything. Well done.
I agree with alex and michel, they fear the beast that they think is on the island and that is stopping them from getting things done and postponing the rescue that they think will happen.
Cassandra and Madison, I agree with both of you. The beast shows us how fear can lead to irrational conclusions, for the beast "possessing" them shows how absorbed we can become in our delusions and how if we let things like this too far into our lives, in will unearth something we do not like.
I couldn't of said, what Alex said, any better. I agree with his point. It's human nature, and this is seen across the numerous chapters up to now. The boys seem to be limiting there choices, and what they're deciding to get done due to fears and collective opinions.
I like what cass said about the boys becoming the beasts themeselves, i had not thought of that. We can clearly see this is happening by the way jack has been acting
So true Cassandra, fear is entirely psychological and since everybody's psychology is different, everyone fears different things in different ways. It also explains why we as humans (including the boys) tend to be so irrational when it comes to things we're afraid of (or rather, things we think we're afraid of).
I agree with Cassandra! What she said about the boys becoming the beasts themselves is very interesting, I thought of it that way as well. We can see that within Jack's character since he seems to become more and more aggressive in every chapter.
I also agree with Cassandra! anybody can be the beast, the beast is a symbol of power. Jack uses the beast for power when he says that him and his hunters will haunt him down and even tough he knows he is almost certain that the beast exists he still insists on making the littluns and other ones maybe believing that there is one just so they look up to him for power.
I really hadn't even thought of the boys becoming the beast, I like what it insinuates because it is revealing that they each have a savagery inside that they fear themsleves, a darker side, a beast.
This is very interesting, Golding is basically making a statement on the evil, wild, even beastly nature of men. The boys are actually afraid of the evil inside themselves.
I think this quote talks about how people are afraid to feel fear. to some people, showing fear is bad because it makes you seem weak to others so we keep our fears to ourselves. Think about it, how many times has someone asked you what your greatest fear was and you refuse to tell them or you lie about it because you are afraid they will make fun if you. That's how we think in our society, every one must be cool and collected, no one must show fear. The fear in the chapter that they speak of comes for the possibility of the beast, but it also comes from the fear that all the littluns have of talking in front of the group because everyone laughs at them This is seen in the chapter when the boys are talking about the possibilities of a beast, when the beast from the water is mentionned, everyone gets scarred. But shortly after everyone is ok, then we get the idea of ghosts, an idea that comes for someones fear of a potential beast that may or may not exist. The point is that the boys fear what they cannot explain so they start imagining all sorts of beasts when there could not even be any. the quote at page 96 talks shows us how Simon tries to tell every one about how they are the beasts gets quickely shut down by Jack and the others that are laughing at him. Then another boy points out the idea that there might be ghosts. 'You Simon? You believe in this?' 'I don't know' said Simon. His heartbeats were choking him. 'But...' The storm broke. ....... (further down) 'We could be sort of...' Simon became inarticulate in his effort to express mankind's essential illness. Inspiration came to him. 'Whats the dirtiest thing there is?' ....... The hunters were screaming with delight. Simons efforts fell about him in ruins; the laughter beat him cruelly and he shrank away defenceless to his seat. At last the assembly was silent again. Someone spoke out of turn. 'Maybe he means it's some sort of ghost' page 96
This shows us that even though some one is trying to bring reason to everyone, no one will listen to that person. They will simply look down upon them, creating fear in that person because they do not wish to speak anymore. Also leading to other ideas of fear- the ghosts.
Yeah, they really are just fearing the idea of fear, and it comes out in Jack's favour in the end. It seems fear and savagery go hand in hand - and they are all starting to feel fear.
Interesting. In my opinion, the boys are doing the exact opposite: they are not fearing fear, they are fearing the beast. If they were fearing fear, they would be doing everything in their power to overcome their fear of the beast. But, in this chapter, we can see that their actions are influenced by their fear of the beast thus, that they are not trying to overcome this fear.
It is true that in society people are afraid to say what they really think because they are afraid of being judged. I agree with what Nicolas has said. The children are afraid to say what they really want because they don't want to get laughed at. The boys on the island don't seem to be comfortable enough with each other to say their true opinions and thoughts. The boys are scared of the thought of the Beast but nobody has actually seen it. Since they are very scared, they don't often go in the forest and they are easily influenced.
I think people jump to conclusions as a quick escape from the possibility of fear. The boys jump to conclusions about beast and the possibility of others, without actually considering logic. What Tristan said made sense, fear and savagery go hand in hand in a way that a scared individual will become savage to protect whatever they feel is within their perspective of vulnerability.
I totally agree with Alex. The boys seem to be afraid the beast more than fear itself. You did find some good quotes to support your argument. Nice job, Nic.
I agree with you michel, people do jump to conclusions to forget about the possibility of fear. The boys do seem to be more afraud of the beast than the fear itself.
I disagree with you Alex. The beast is not real, it is made up. How can you be afraid of something that does not exist? They are only afraid of the idea of a beast on the island and the idea of being afraid of the beast terrifies them. That being said, I think that the boys are afraid of fearing the beast.
I see what you are saying Camille, but many people fear things that do not exist, take ghosts for example. They do not exist but people are still afraid of them; it is fear of the unknown. The boys are not afraid of being afraid of the beast, they are afraid of the unknown (of what they believe is there).
I understand what you are saying and I do partially agree with you. I also disagree with you when you said that ghosts do not exist. I took the liberty of inserting a link to an enlightening documentary on ghosts. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6WiSjNjBhI
I think both Camille and Alex have a point, another common example is how so many people are afraid of the dark. It's not the darkness they are afraid of but of the uncertainty of what can come out of it, on the other hand, deep down they know there isin't really anything there. I think we're all somehow programmed to fear something.
What Alex is saying makes sense i hadn't thought of it that way, I think that most of them deep down inside know that the beast doesn't exist but they hear everyone else being scared and talking about it so they're starting to believe that it actually does exist.
I agree with Erica, I think that they all start to feel fear among themselves, most of them know that the beast is non-existent but with everyone else being scared about the supposed beast believing in it is a sort of outlet for their fear; a scapegoat, if you will. They are running from the fact that they fear the idea of fear.
Fear has an exponential impact, because once you give in to fear once, afterwards, you'll always be afraid of being scared again. Once you have acknowledged something as scary or dangerous, it is just a natural reflex to fear it from then on.
I agree with what Madison said, the boys definitely are afraid to admit they are scared in fear of being judge or laughed at, but I also believe the boys are in denial and refuse to believe in the ghosts or the beast because most humans fear the unknown, they do not want to believe in these monsters because believing in them would give them reason to fear them, which shows that they fear fear itself.
I agree with Cloe. Before they had this meeting, their idea of the beast was that it lived on the island. In that case, they were able to reassure themselves by saying that they've been everywhere on the island and if there were to be a beast, they would've seen it by now. They also kept themselves busy by hunting and working around the island to get their mind off of it. Their source of reassurance was no longer good the moment the little boy said the beast could live in the sea and come out at night. They haven't explored the waters, they have no idea what could be in there. There's no way for them to know, which is why they show more fear now because they have no way to reassure themselves like they used to before. They might also not be able to keep themselves as busy, for example, they might fear going in the forest now, as Alex said. The boys fear the unknown, as Cloe said. Furthermore, the boys don't want to be scared. They might fear fear so they don't look weak or they might fear fear because they don't want to feel scared, they want to feel safe. They push their fears away as much as possible, which eventually leads their mind to fear fear.
Tristan has an excellent point. Fear and savagery go hand to hand, as he said. It's the reason, I believe, that Jack is seen as such a great hunter, or possibly a hero to some of the children.
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RépondreEffacerPsychologically, humans make themselves afraid out of being afraid. This said, take the example of a nightmare. In some way, you know whats going to happen to you next in your nightmare but you deny the fact that something bad will happen to you. Humans get frightened because they don't wanna get frightened...In chapter 5 of Lord of the flies, fear is shown as the main subject, The boys are stressing themselves out in fear in order to not be afraid of what scares them, the beast.
RépondreEffaceras an example when Jack says:
“The thing is—fear can’t hurt you any more than a dream. There aren’t
any beasts to be afraid of on this island.” He looked along the row of whispering littluns. “Serve you right if something did get you, you useless
lot of cry-babies! But there is no animal—”
afterwards, Piggy went against Jacks statement saying,
“I don’t agree with all Jack said, but with some. ’Course there isn't a
beast in the forest. How could there be? What would a beast eat?”
“Pig.”
“We eat pig.”
this foreshadows and hints the boys stranded on the island have become the beast them selves.
That is interesting, I didn't see it that way. I think the boys could be the Beast in themselves because they have never been in a situation like they are in now. The boys only have one thing in mind and it is to survive. They have different ways of thinking so they do not get along. The boys are afraid of a Beast that nobody has really seen. I think they are more afraid or the idea of the Beast without having any proof of it. The boys are also afraid of not being rescued but they all try to pretend they aren't afraid. I believe that since being a boy/man involves being strong, the boys might be scared of being scared or maybe even scared of accepting somebody else's ideas
EffacerI hadn't thought of the boys becoming the beast themselves. I like it because it shows how they each have the beast, a symbol of savagery and fear, inside of them.
EffacerI agree with Madison , and that they are more afraid of the idea of the Beast without having any proof of it, just the idea that their might be something in the island makes them afraid.
EffacerInteresting. I thought this quote was describing how fear weakens a person mentally and can make a person susceptible. The boys are afraid of a certain beast on the island, but the fact that they are feeling fear is restraining them from getting things done on island (ex. going in the forest). This, ultimately, could lead to their deaths, which is why they must fear, fear.
EffacerI agree with Alex, the fear of fearing something on the Island is keeping them from getting things done. As talking about something we fear relieves stress about that something, they boys do it amongst themselves. Though what they don't realise is, that it's keeping them from moving towards the ultimate goal of rescue.
EffacerThe boys becoming the beats is an interesting idea. I also liked what Alex had said about fear restraining the boys from accomplishing anything. Well done.
EffacerI agree with alex and michel, they fear the beast that they think is on the island and that is stopping them from getting things done and postponing the rescue that they think will happen.
EffacerCassandra and Madison, I agree with both of you. The beast shows us how fear can lead to irrational conclusions, for the beast "possessing" them shows how absorbed we can become in our delusions and how if we let things like this too far into our lives, in will unearth something we do not like.
EffacerI couldn't of said, what Alex said, any better. I agree with his point. It's human nature, and this is seen across the numerous chapters up to now. The boys seem to be limiting there choices, and what they're deciding to get done due to fears and collective opinions.
EffacerI like what cass said about the boys becoming the beasts themeselves, i had not thought of that. We can clearly see this is happening by the way jack has been acting
EffacerSo true Cassandra, fear is entirely psychological and since everybody's psychology is different, everyone fears different things in different ways. It also explains why we as humans (including the boys) tend to be so irrational when it comes to things we're afraid of (or rather, things we think we're afraid of).
EffacerI agree with Cassandra! What she said about the boys becoming the beasts themselves is very interesting, I thought of it that way as well. We can see that within Jack's character since he seems to become more and more aggressive in every chapter.
EffacerI also agree with Cassandra! anybody can be the beast, the beast is a symbol of power. Jack uses the beast for power when he says that him and his hunters will haunt him down and even tough he knows he is almost certain that the beast exists he still insists on making the littluns and other ones maybe believing that there is one just so they look up to him for power.
EffacerI really hadn't even thought of the boys becoming the beast, I like what it insinuates because it is revealing that they each have a savagery inside that they fear themsleves, a darker side, a beast.
EffacerThis is very interesting, Golding is basically making a statement on the evil, wild, even beastly nature of men. The boys are actually afraid of the evil inside themselves.
EffacerI think this quote talks about how people are afraid to feel fear. to some people, showing fear is bad because it makes you seem weak to others so we keep our fears to ourselves. Think about it, how many times has someone asked you what your greatest fear was and you refuse to tell them or you lie about it because you are afraid they will make fun if you. That's how we think in our society, every one must be cool and collected, no one must show fear. The fear in the chapter that they speak of comes for the possibility of the beast, but it also comes from the fear that all the littluns have of talking in front of the group because everyone laughs at them This is seen in the chapter when the boys are talking about the possibilities of a beast, when the beast from the water is mentionned, everyone gets scarred. But shortly after everyone is ok, then we get the idea of ghosts, an idea that comes for someones fear of a potential beast that may or may not exist. The point is that the boys fear what they cannot explain so they start imagining all sorts of beasts when there could not even be any. the quote at page 96 talks shows us how Simon tries to tell every one about how they are the beasts gets quickely shut down by Jack and the others that are laughing at him. Then another boy points out the idea that there might be ghosts.
RépondreEffacer'You Simon? You believe in this?'
'I don't know' said Simon. His heartbeats were choking him. 'But...'
The storm broke.
....... (further down)
'We could be sort of...'
Simon became inarticulate in his effort to express mankind's essential illness. Inspiration came to him.
'Whats the dirtiest thing there is?'
.......
The hunters were screaming with delight.
Simons efforts fell about him in ruins; the laughter beat him cruelly and he shrank away defenceless to his seat.
At last the assembly was silent again. Someone spoke out of turn.
'Maybe he means it's some sort of ghost'
page 96
This shows us that even though some one is trying to bring reason to everyone, no one will listen to that person. They will simply look down upon them, creating fear in that person because they do not wish to speak anymore. Also leading to other ideas of fear- the ghosts.
Yeah, they really are just fearing the idea of fear, and it comes out in Jack's favour in the end. It seems fear and savagery go hand in hand - and they are all starting to feel fear.
EffacerInteresting. In my opinion, the boys are doing the exact opposite: they are not fearing fear, they are fearing the beast. If they were fearing fear, they would be doing everything in their power to overcome their fear of the beast. But, in this chapter, we can see that their actions are influenced by their fear of the beast thus, that they are not trying to overcome this fear.
EffacerIt is true that in society people are afraid to say what they really think because they are afraid of being judged. I agree with what Nicolas has said. The children are afraid to say what they really want because they don't want to get laughed at. The boys on the island don't seem to be comfortable enough with each other to say their true opinions and thoughts. The boys are scared of the thought of the Beast but nobody has actually seen it. Since they are very scared, they don't often go in the forest and they are easily influenced.
EffacerI think people jump to conclusions as a quick escape from the possibility of fear. The boys jump to conclusions about beast and the possibility of others, without actually considering logic. What Tristan said made sense, fear and savagery go hand in hand in a way that a scared individual will become savage to protect whatever they feel is within their perspective of vulnerability.
EffacerI totally agree with Alex. The boys seem to be afraid the beast more than fear itself. You did find some good quotes to support your argument. Nice job, Nic.
EffacerI agree with you michel, people do jump to conclusions to forget about the possibility of fear. The boys do seem to be more afraud of the beast than the fear itself.
EffacerI disagree with you Alex. The beast is not real, it is made up. How can you be afraid of something that does not exist? They are only afraid of the idea of a beast on the island and the idea of being afraid of the beast terrifies them. That being said, I think that the boys are afraid of fearing the beast.
EffacerI see what you are saying Camille, but many people fear things that do not exist, take ghosts for example. They do not exist but people are still afraid of them; it is fear of the unknown. The boys are not afraid of being afraid of the beast, they are afraid of the unknown (of what they believe is there).
EffacerI understand what you are saying and I do partially agree with you. I also disagree with you when you said that ghosts do not exist. I took the liberty of inserting a link to an enlightening documentary on ghosts. ;)
Effacerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6WiSjNjBhI
I think both Camille and Alex have a point, another common example is how so many people are afraid of the dark. It's not the darkness they are afraid of but of the uncertainty of what can come out of it, on the other hand, deep down they know there isin't really anything there. I think we're all somehow programmed to fear something.
EffacerWhat Alex is saying makes sense i hadn't thought of it that way, I think that most of them deep down inside know that the beast doesn't exist but they hear everyone else being scared and talking about it so they're starting to believe that it actually does exist.
EffacerI agree with Erica, I think that they all start to feel fear among themselves, most of them know that the beast is non-existent but with everyone else being scared about the supposed beast believing in it is a sort of outlet for their fear; a scapegoat, if you will. They are running from the fact that they fear the idea of fear.
EffacerFear has an exponential impact, because once you give in to fear once, afterwards, you'll always be afraid of being scared again. Once you have acknowledged something as scary or dangerous, it is just a natural reflex to fear it from then on.
EffacerI agree with what Madison said, the boys definitely are afraid to admit they are scared in fear of being judge or laughed at, but I also believe the boys are in denial and refuse to believe in the ghosts or the beast because most humans fear the unknown, they do not want to believe in these monsters because believing in them would give them reason to fear them, which shows that they fear fear itself.
RépondreEffacerI agree with Cloe. Before they had this meeting, their idea of the beast was that it lived on the island. In that case, they were able to reassure themselves by saying that they've been everywhere on the island and if there were to be a beast, they would've seen it by now. They also kept themselves busy by hunting and working around the island to get their mind off of it. Their source of reassurance was no longer good the moment the little boy said the beast could live in the sea and come out at night. They haven't explored the waters, they have no idea what could be in there. There's no way for them to know, which is why they show more fear now because they have no way to reassure themselves like they used to before. They might also not be able to keep themselves as busy, for example, they might fear going in the forest now, as Alex said. The boys fear the unknown, as Cloe said. Furthermore, the boys don't want to be scared. They might fear fear so they don't look weak or they might fear fear because they don't want to feel scared, they want to feel safe. They push their fears away as much as possible, which eventually leads their mind to fear fear.
EffacerTristan has an excellent point. Fear and savagery go hand to hand, as he said. It's the reason, I believe, that Jack is seen as such a great hunter, or possibly a hero to some of the children.
RépondreEffacer