Knowledge is of no value unless you put it into practice. Anton Chekhov - What does it mean? - How does it relate to chapter 2? - What concrete example of this quote can I find in the novel? (Remember to add page number)
to me, this quote means that although you may know what you want to do, it is important to know how to do it properly so that you may achieve what you want. It is one thing to know how to do something, but actually doing it without making mistakes takes practice, which is why there is no use to having knowledge if you do not put it into practice. This quote relates to chapter 2 because in this chapter the boys on the island decide to make a fire, they have enough knowledge to know that you need wood to start a fire, but once they have gathered all their wood they realize they don't have any matches and although they have the knowledge that if you rub two sticks together in the proper way you can start a fire, none of them actually know how to do it. They then use Piggy's glasses to start the fire , but once the fire is lit, it quickly burns out without making much smoke because they used the wrong kind of branches. The boys then decide to let whatever is left of their fire burn out, but they let it burn out on its own, and leave it unsupervised, which results in all the firewood on the island catching fire. "But the first time Ralph says "fire" you goes howling and screaming up this here mountain. Like a pack of kids!" (Piggy, p.45) "How can you expect to be rescued if you don't put first things first and act proper?" (Piggy p.45)
I agree with your examples but when you say " this quote means that although you may know what you want to do, it is important to know how to do it properly so that you may achieve what you want ", I don't think it's so much about knowing how to do it properly but just practicing or knowing the technique so that you know how to put it to good use. For example, looking over a math problem and knowing it by heart does not guarantee that you will know how to do it for a test, if you practice it repeatedly however, you will know how to do it at a moments notice.
I was also thinking that when Ralph decides to use the conch as a method of letting people talk, he has the knowledge to do something that will help keep order when people are talking but later when piggy wants to talk, no one listens, not even Ralph. So he is not using the method of communication that he has just created.
I hadn't thought of it that way.. to me this quote also relates to the fact that Piggy has more knowledge that most of the other boys, but because they don't listen to him, he doesn't have the opportunity to put it in practice. Whereas, the other boys, under Ralph's leadership have the means to accomplish things, yet they lack the knowledge to make the right decisions and actually do what is best.
I agree with you Jana. It's not about doing something properly, but simply a matter that knowledge is something that is meant to be shared with others and not contained in one's mind. It is important to speak out and share any ideas you might have. In the end, this quote speaks for itself: if you do not use your intellect, or accept one's intellect (in Piggy's case), that intellect is worthless.
Piggy seems to be one of the smarter ones of the group. He was angry when the boys ran straight to the top of the mountain as soon as Ralph said "fire". Piggy is looking for the boys attention so he can say what he needs to say but nobody listens to him. The boys must also put a lot of practice into getting it right. Getting things in order and figuring out how to make their fire or smoke signals. Like Cloé said, the boys must practice to get the result they want. They must learn from their mistakes, work together and improve their mistakes to get what they want so that they will survive on the island
I agree with Lizzy, Piggy's never gotten a direct chance to speak his mind to the other boys without him being shut down by them. The other kids are quick to pass to judgement and as an effect they don't give the chance for Piggy to talk, or even Ralph to think logically and make decisions. Piggy shows knowledge and maybe wisdom beyond his years.
I am more on Élisabeth's side for this one, though Cloé's explanation works as well. It's just that, for me, the quote relates more to the disorder and the chaos than the amount of practice they had to start a fire. For example, they all know how civilization works, they all come from an orderly and rational society. Ralph even sets out rules during the meeting such as the "Conch rule" to keep the peace and order among the group. They devise a plan a way to survive until rescue with hunters as well as a way to attract rescuers with a fire on the top of the mountain. However, chaos and fear breaks out when they start talking about the Beastie. Also, Piggy, who is the voice of reason in all of this, seems to know what they should be doing, yet no one ever listens to him. "The first thing we ought to have made was shelters down there by the beach. It wasn't half cold down there in the night. But the first time Ralph says "fire" you goes howling and screaming up this here mountain. Like a pack of wild kids!" So, they have the knowledge to survive with Piggy's sense of order, yet they prefer to fool around and end up burning down their forest. "How can you expect to be rescued if you don't put first things first and act proper?" This really shows the importance of civilization and order in their survival as well as just how useless this knowledge is if they don't know how to make use of it.
I think the real challenge for them is learning how to learn from their mistakes. As you get older, and I'm sure we've all experienced this one way or another, we get to apply the knowledge we've acquired from our mistakes. Though when we look back it doesn't seem as evident when we were younger. It's why it's going to be interesting to see if the boys dismiss the opportunity to learn from the repercussions of their actions or embrace it. :D
I agree with Lizzy because if Piggy could find a way to demonstrate or speak his knowledge, the boys might be able to find value in Piggy. Furthermore, if they gave him a chance, they could gain knowledge about survival skills. By doing this, they would have no choice but to put that knowledge into practice in order to survive on the island. As the quote says, knowledge is more valuable when it is shared and put to practice.
These are great observations. I do agree with Elizabeth's point of vue. Nobody gives much though into any idea Piggy throws out. Similar to Tristan's comment, i think it shows how important civilization is. It's also a great way to prove the quote above.
I agree with Michel, the real challenge is to learn from their mistakes move on, as children, you don`t really know what the "right" thing is, and so as you get older you learn to make the right decisions.
I agree with Lizzy, and I think that it was wise of Ralph to use the conch shell as the right of speech however the way the kids go about it (system) isn’t fair. Judgment and ridicule is passed too quickly to listen to Piggy.
In addition, I agree with Tristan, although I hadn’t thought of that. In correlation to the importance of civilisation and the knowledge of survival I think people need to recognise that the more change that is going on in society, the more important it is that we make sure that our learning is as effective as possible. That is the only way we have any chance of being able to equate change with progress. For example, if they want to have a better future, they have to improve the quality and effectiveness of their learning and adaptation.
Some very good remarks. I agree with many of theses comments, such as Elizabeth's, Tristan's & Oliver's remarks. I find it's a judgmental manor of dealing with affaires. Piggy is seen as fat, lazy & is made fun of regularly in the two chapters so far. Even when some of the things he's bullied of is uncontrollable (his asthma for example). But he was made fun of by the "Leader", Ralph. In this society, the younger follow whoever seems to be in control, and therefor see it's fine to pass judgement on Piggy. As for the quotation, I agree that practice is crucial to knowledge. A skill is not formed from knowing about it, you can't rock climb, for instance, if you just read a book about it. It requires practice and dedication.
I agree with Jana, and they need to learn soon or nothing will get done on the island! And Piggy will need to find a way to really leave a mark on the group so they start respecting him a bit more
Yeah, age makes a huge difference, mostly in a context where they have to face real life issues without any previous experiences and no opportunity for mistakes. In a normal situation, you can practice to make a fire and even if you don't succeed you can always try again. This situation is different because the challenges they face are a matter of life or death and can have enormous and irreversible repercussions (like starting a forest fire).
Man... this chapter took a huge leap. All seems to be well in the first chapter, but as soon as the second chapter starts, we truly get to see the chaos and commotion present in the boys' new "society". A forest fire and potentially a boy's death! Pretty big mistakes to learn from...
I agree with Alexandre. This chapter really surprised me. I did not expect this to happen. It goes from everything being good to being a mess. The boys don't seem to be prepared for what is going to come. Once they realise what is in store for them, it will be a huge shock! They need to shape up soon or else they are going to fall apart faster than we know it
Not to mention that they all seem to be falling apart: Jack vs. Piggy... Bigguns vs. Littluns... the Beastie... with Ralph desperately attempting to keep them all together.
There were some major mistakes they definitely will learn from. Not listening to Piggy is one of them. Piggy seems to be more wise than the others in this chapter. Nobody listens to him and that causes some problems. Hopefully the boys start to prevent future problems. Personally, I think their civilization will not get any better from this point. It will be hard for them to recover from all of this.
As Olivier said, Piggy seems to be more mature than the rest of the group, he also is wiser than most of the people in the little community, hopefully, the kids will start listening to his ideas and apply them.
I think that no matter how much information you know about something and eventough you think you know everything about that subject if you don't practice it none of it will matter. Eventually no matter how much you know about something if you don't keep educating yourself and practicing that praticular you will end up losing it. I think this quote is significant to chapter 2 because the boys have to work with the knowledge they have to survive, obviously none of them have been put in such a situation so now they have to put their ideas together to figure out what they can do to survive and to get out of there."we can help them to find us. If a ship cones near the island they may not notice us. So we must make some on top of the mountain. We must make a fire" this quote shows that the boys all agree on the idea of making a fire for rescue and they put their ideas into practice.
to me, this quote means that although you may know what you want to do, it is important to know how to do it properly so that you may achieve what you want. It is one thing to know how to do something, but actually doing it without making mistakes takes practice, which is why there is no use to having knowledge if you do not put it into practice.
RépondreEffacerThis quote relates to chapter 2 because in this chapter the boys on the island decide to make a fire, they have enough knowledge to know that you need wood to start a fire, but once they have gathered all their wood they realize they don't have any matches and although they have the knowledge that if you rub two sticks together in the proper way you can start a fire, none of them actually know how to do it. They then use Piggy's glasses to start the fire , but once the fire is lit, it quickly burns out without making much smoke because they used the wrong kind of branches. The boys then decide to let whatever is left of their fire burn out, but they let it burn out on its own, and leave it unsupervised, which results in all the firewood on the island catching fire.
"But the first time Ralph says "fire" you goes howling and screaming up this here mountain. Like a pack of kids!" (Piggy, p.45)
"How can you expect to be rescued if you don't put first things first and act proper?" (Piggy p.45)
I agree with your examples but when you say " this quote means that although you may know what you want to do, it is important to know how to do it properly so that you may achieve what you want ", I don't think it's so much about knowing how to do it properly but just practicing or knowing the technique so that you know how to put it to good use. For example, looking over a math problem and knowing it by heart does not guarantee that you will know how to do it for a test, if you practice it repeatedly however, you will know how to do it at a moments notice.
EffacerI was also thinking that when Ralph decides to use the conch as a method of letting people talk, he has the knowledge to do something that will help keep order when people are talking but later when piggy wants to talk, no one listens, not even Ralph. So he is not using the method of communication that he has just created.
EffacerI hadn't thought of it that way.. to me this quote also relates to the fact that Piggy has more knowledge that most of the other boys, but because they don't listen to him, he doesn't have the opportunity to put it in practice. Whereas, the other boys, under Ralph's leadership have the means to accomplish things, yet they lack the knowledge to make the right decisions and actually do what is best.
EffacerI agree with you Jana. It's not about doing something properly, but simply a matter that knowledge is something that is meant to be shared with others and not contained in one's mind. It is important to speak out and share any ideas you might have. In the end, this quote speaks for itself: if you do not use your intellect, or accept one's intellect (in Piggy's case), that intellect is worthless.
EffacerPiggy seems to be one of the smarter ones of the group. He was angry when the boys ran straight to the top of the mountain as soon as Ralph said "fire". Piggy is looking for the boys attention so he can say what he needs to say but nobody listens to him. The boys must also put a lot of practice into getting it right. Getting things in order and figuring out how to make their fire or smoke signals. Like Cloé said, the boys must practice to get the result they want. They must learn from their mistakes, work together and improve their mistakes to get what they want so that they will survive on the island
EffacerI agree with Lizzy, Piggy's never gotten a direct chance to speak his mind to the other boys without him being shut down by them. The other kids are quick to pass to judgement and as an effect they don't give the chance for Piggy to talk, or even Ralph to think logically and make decisions. Piggy shows knowledge and maybe wisdom beyond his years.
EffacerI am more on Élisabeth's side for this one, though Cloé's explanation works as well. It's just that, for me, the quote relates more to the disorder and the chaos than the amount of practice they had to start a fire. For example, they all know how civilization works, they all come from an orderly and rational society. Ralph even sets out rules during the meeting such as the "Conch rule" to keep the peace and order among the group. They devise a plan a way to survive until rescue with hunters as well as a way to attract rescuers with a fire on the top of the mountain. However, chaos and fear breaks out when they start talking about the Beastie. Also, Piggy, who is the voice of reason in all of this, seems to know what they should be doing, yet no one ever listens to him. "The first thing we ought to have made was shelters down there by the beach. It wasn't half cold down there in the night. But the first time Ralph says "fire" you goes howling and screaming up this here mountain. Like a pack of wild kids!" So, they have the knowledge to survive with Piggy's sense of order, yet they prefer to fool around and end up burning down their forest. "How can you expect to be rescued if you don't put first things first and act proper?" This really shows the importance of civilization and order in their survival as well as just how useless this knowledge is if they don't know how to make use of it.
EffacerI think the real challenge for them is learning how to learn from their mistakes. As you get older, and I'm sure we've all experienced this one way or another, we get to apply the knowledge we've acquired from our mistakes. Though when we look back it doesn't seem as evident when we were younger. It's why it's going to be interesting to see if the boys dismiss the opportunity to learn from the repercussions of their actions or embrace it. :D
EffacerI agree with Lizzy because if Piggy could find a way to demonstrate or speak his knowledge, the boys might be able to find value in Piggy. Furthermore, if they gave him a chance, they could gain knowledge about survival skills. By doing this, they would have no choice but to put that knowledge into practice in order to survive on the island. As the quote says, knowledge is more valuable when it is shared and put to practice.
EffacerThese are great observations. I do agree with Elizabeth's point of vue. Nobody gives much though into any idea Piggy throws out. Similar to Tristan's comment, i think it shows how important civilization is. It's also a great way to prove the quote above.
EffacerI agree with Michel, the real challenge is to learn from their mistakes move on, as children, you don`t really know what the "right" thing is, and so as you get older you learn to make the right decisions.
EffacerI agree with Lizzy, and I think that it was wise of Ralph to use the conch shell as the right of speech however the way the kids go about it (system) isn’t fair. Judgment and ridicule is passed too quickly to listen to Piggy.
EffacerIn addition, I agree with Tristan, although I hadn’t thought of that. In correlation to the importance of civilisation and the knowledge of survival I think people need to recognise that the more change that is going on in society, the more important it is that we make sure that our learning is as effective as possible. That is the only way we have any chance of being able to equate change with progress. For example, if they want to have a better future, they have to improve the quality and effectiveness of their learning and adaptation.
Some very good remarks. I agree with many of theses comments, such as Elizabeth's, Tristan's & Oliver's remarks. I find it's a judgmental manor of dealing with affaires. Piggy is seen as fat, lazy & is made fun of regularly in the two chapters so far. Even when some of the things he's bullied of is uncontrollable (his asthma for example). But he was made fun of by the "Leader", Ralph. In this society, the younger follow whoever seems to be in control, and therefor see it's fine to pass judgement on Piggy. As for the quotation, I agree that practice is crucial to knowledge. A skill is not formed from knowing about it, you can't rock climb, for instance, if you just read a book about it. It requires practice and dedication.
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RépondreEffacerLearning from mistakes is definitely a good point. I think it's going to be harder for them however, because of their young age.
EffacerI agree with Jana, and they need to learn soon or nothing will get done on the island! And Piggy will need to find a way to really leave a mark on the group so they start respecting him a bit more
EffacerYeah, age makes a huge difference, mostly in a context where they have to face real life issues without any previous experiences and no opportunity for mistakes. In a normal situation, you can practice to make a fire and even if you don't succeed you can always try again. This situation is different because the challenges they face are a matter of life or death and can have enormous and irreversible repercussions (like starting a forest fire).
EffacerMan... this chapter took a huge leap. All seems to be well in the first chapter, but as soon as the second chapter starts, we truly get to see the chaos and commotion present in the boys' new "society". A forest fire and potentially a boy's death! Pretty big mistakes to learn from...
EffacerI agree with Alexandre. This chapter really surprised me. I did not expect this to happen. It goes from everything being good to being a mess. The boys don't seem to be prepared for what is going to come. Once they realise what is in store for them, it will be a huge shock! They need to shape up soon or else they are going to fall apart faster than we know it
EffacerNot to mention that they all seem to be falling apart: Jack vs. Piggy... Bigguns vs. Littluns... the Beastie... with Ralph desperately attempting to keep them all together.
EffacerThere were some major mistakes they definitely will learn from. Not listening to Piggy is one of them. Piggy seems to be more wise than the others in this chapter. Nobody listens to him and that causes some problems. Hopefully the boys start to prevent future problems. Personally, I think their civilization will not get any better from this point. It will be hard for them to recover from all of this.
EffacerAs Olivier said, Piggy seems to be more mature than the rest of the group, he also is wiser than most of the people in the little community, hopefully, the kids will start listening to his ideas and apply them.
EffacerI think that no matter how much information you know about something and eventough you think you know everything about that subject if you don't practice it none of it will matter. Eventually no matter how much you know about something if you don't keep educating yourself and practicing that praticular you will end up losing it. I think this quote is significant to chapter 2 because the boys have to work with the knowledge they have to survive, obviously none of them have been put in such a situation so now they have to put their ideas together to figure out what they can do to survive and to get out of there."we can help them to find us. If a ship cones near the island they may not notice us. So we must make some on top of the mountain. We must make a fire" this quote shows that the boys all agree on the idea of making a fire for rescue and they put their ideas into practice.
RépondreEffacer